[quote YFD08CBG3AEB6CC6] Holden was 20 years too late with their overhyped RTS that was a embarrassment.[/quote] JB007, I agree that Holden was years too late with introduction of RTS but I respectfully disagree that it was an embarrassment. Having driven numerous pre-RTS HQ/HJ/HX Holdens from the George Roberts era (when chronic understeer was considered a GM-H safety feature because it made drivers slow down!) the transformation evident in the HZ/WB was profound. It also prompted Ford and Chrysler to follow suit with their own handling upgrades, so in reality I reckon 'The Big Three' were all dragging the chain on improved handling dynamics back then.