The Commodore was a revelation. Sure the engines were disappointing, but the SL/E with the optional 5.0-litre V8 was just about the best sports sedan money could buy in 1978-79.
As per your comment on the VB development being an important even in Holdens history I’d be interested in a book about the development and testing of the Commodore. I’ve read plenty of articles over the years and recall the stories of the Opel engineers not believing the readouts or that the roads were actually real roads etc. I think it would a good book like your “Special” book on the 48, and Don Lofflers books.
I guess owning a VH Vacationer may have something to do with it.
But as a 16yo in 1978 I remember the excitement of the launch of the Commodore. I used to subscribe to Wheels magazine and devoured the articles in them, all gone now. The VB Commodore issue arrived water damaged which was disappointing. But I dried it off and still read it cover to cover.
This is almost a repeat of my reflections on your Gemini piece, John, but my Dad bought a VB sports pack in 1979 as our family car. It had lovely mid-brown metallic paint (not Sandalwood) and the SL/E alloys. I couldn't believe our family had acquired such a cool "sports" sedan. Driving it with the V8, dual exhausts and 4 speed manual was a treat for me as an 18 year old. The steering and handling seemed magical to me at the time. Our car didn't suffer any quality control problems in the body or interior but the poor 4.2 litre V8 was strangled by emissions gear and I remember dad returning from a long trip one day with it sounding like a chaff cutter - I think the dealer managed to get it sounding OK again. Not long after that Dad set off for Cowra (we lived in Canberra) very early one morning on a business trip. He suffered from hay fever, was taking antihistamines and didn't have breakfast that day. Inevitably, he fell asleep at the wheel on a straight stretch of road and 'came to' just in time to find himself barreling off the wrong side of the road at about 120km/h. He reckons he hit everything (brakes, steering) but it was too late and he probably made it a lot worse! The car hit a dirt culvert and launched itself into an impressive, multiple end-over-end roll (according to a witness and the damage incurred). A local farmer heard the commotion and saw the dust. Dad was wearing his seat belt and his only injuries were a bad sternum strain and a strange isolated graze on the back of his head (hair missing too). He was hospitalised for 24 hours under observation. I never saw the VB again. Needless to say, it was written off. But I reckon its inherent strength and safety probably had a lot to do with Dad's survival. That, and wearing his seat belt...
I am with you, Mirrabucca. Of course the point about the sexiness of a Fairmont GXL versus a Commodore is right, too. Oddly, there was no overtly sporty variant of the VB because the Sport Pak didn't qualify. The Peugeot 504 was head and shoulders above both Falcon and Commodore at the time and history has served to extend its advantage. How about a 504 with a small block V8? You wouldn't even have to upgrade the brakes. This car (in 2.0-litre Ti guise) was Peugeot's postwar high point before a rapid descent into ordinariness. There was an ad campaign in the early 1990s 'Only a Peugeot a Peugeot is a Peugeot'. That would be laughable now.
All very well to be discussing the VB in S/LE V8 form - for those who were allocated a fleet car; we were lucky to end up with not much more than a no-frills base model. Working as a rep in the oil industry, my first company car was an HZ Kingswood SL, which I loved - big, solid and handled reasonably well. By 1981 our choice was between the VC Commodore L 3.3 or XD Falcon GL 3.3. Without a family, the VC seemed to me to be the logical choice. One look at the big plain black plastic dash with a hole for a parcel tray, under dash hand-brake XD and column auto change, convinced me the more civilised VC was the way to go. It was the first of three Commodores - VH and VL followed and I was never disappointed. They all stood up pretty well to Queensland roads and heat, with a few long trips to Melbourne. After 100,000 kms the VC was replaced and yes, Dr John, one of the most irritating things were the ashtrays in the rear doors rolling around on the floor. GMH did take a big gamble with it - many Commodores and Falcons in the early '80s seemed to be fleet cars.
I agree 100% Motown about the comparison with the Fairmont GXL. I think that is completely confirmed with the photo you have there. Put them side by side now and the Fairmont GXL still wins by a country mile. Those headlights combined with the bonnet air intakes (were they functional) are beautiful. Those windscreen wipers on the headlights were an interesting option. I never saw a pair that were in the correct position after a few years and a few years after that most had been removed completely. I always wondered why Holden bothered with them.
At the time I definitely preferred the Fords, thinking the Commodore too small. I did, however, like the SLE 308. Especially the little wipers on the headlights, luxury interior and V8 burble. That was a nice package but if someone said you can have that or a 5.8 Fairmont GXL (despite being a generation older car) I would take the Ford although both are desirable today. John I especially love that period photo of the brown Commodore towing the caravan - classic Australiana!
Reminds me. even being an Aussie car fan, I still remember my Ford-Fan Dad, cant remember if it was before or after his VB 308 SLE, bought a Pug 504. Now THAT was the best car for Australia at the time! I remember taking it for a fang. It went very well! I hit a pothole at speed. Well, I thought I did! Saw it coming..., somewhere out there a wheel hit something. Didn't faze the car at all. Talk about a fantastic ride! And corner! These things were brilliant. I'd love to be able to bring one back, see just how good they were, compared to today's best.
Hi Dr John, the R16 was the second TL we had, my brother-in-law also ended up with a TS. Dad couldn't come to trading the R16 on the Commodore, but as I said, he must have been in a very depressed state to arrive home with the Starfire 4 Torana 6 - 12 months latter. I all fairness, we had moved from the Blue Mountains to rural NSW. Not many Renault dealers in the bush in those days. Dad had to show/teach the local wheel alignment place how to align the front wheels on the R16 when we went to the bush. Ah, those were the days!!!!
Ah yes the 250 2V was a great performer. A XY Fairmont 250 2V with top loader [with new linkages of course] and a 2.75:1 rear axle was a fantastic car. I think Ford shot themselves in the foot with their head and intake manifolds cast as one in the pre cross-flow days. The exception was of course the 2V, it was actually a better engine than the 302 in a lot of ways as it was lighter, better on fuel and come very close with power and torque outputs. I'm guessing that's why Ford dropped the 2V as it was an embarrassment to the 302. In retrospect if Ford had cast their heads separate to the inlet manifolds a hole generation of multiple carburetor'd Ford sixes would have emerged and blown the old Red Holden's into the weeds I'm guessing.
Well, gtgeoff, your father traded his R16 on a VB! Was it a TS? If so I can absolutely understand his frustration. Five years elapsed between my purchase of my white 1970 16TS (in 1973) and my Sandalwood VB, half a decade in which performance and quality both declined, especially in the case of locally manufactured (and even locally assembled) cars. My 1975 Passat TS was very poorly put together. As for the comments on Holden straight sixes, there is no doubt the 202 was harsher than the smaller versions and even more breathless. It has always seemed to me as if a kind of wowser mentality prevailed at GM-H, along the lines of 'let's not give the punter too much of a good driving experience.' The brilliance of the LJ XU-1 does, however, reveal the inherent potential of the basically well-engineered in-line Holden six (seen in it best context of time, perhaps, in the EH 179M in Januarly 1964). The XA's 250 six was far better than the HQ's 202 and the 2V (2 venturi) edition offered more squirt than the 253 V8. As I say, the 253 was really the engine entry level for driving enthusiasts. Remember, too, how much heavier a Falcon was than a Commodore. I'm thinking that the XA 250 2V I tested would have had better acceleration and used far less fuel than my 4.2 Commodore, both cars having four-speed manual transmissions.
Yep. My dad bought a XE Falcon S pack over a VH Commodore after driving both a couple of times. He had many quirks my dad, and one was always wanting a tow bar on a car despite NEVER towing anything. He believed that it added strength to the rear end. In this case it did need a brace. He loved that idea. He did though but an XE without power steering which was beyond my mum to drive. It was otherwise a great car. A much better car than my VH.
Cme2c's comment about the towbar brace reminded me of yet another "feature" of the XE Falcon I owned: It also had to have a brace fitted. Because Ford went to a coil spring rear suspension (only a few years after GM...) they decided there was no longer a need for a strong chassis section aft of the rear axle. Hence no strength for towbars either. I wonder how they would have fared in a rear-ender?
Thanks for the story John. The VB ticked many boxes for me at the time except for the lazy fuel burning engines and four speed manual gear boxes that did not have a good name. I did read that the roll over steer was caused by the placement of the steering rack with the Holden engines and not correct until the VL Nissan engine that allowed the rack to be relocated to it correct position. I think the geometry problem was that as the car rolled, the other tie rod resulted in excessive outer wheel toe in. I looked at buying a new run out VL but the Holden dealer was not interested.
Hi, Glynnie. I agree with you about the Chrysler 6s, had a VE valiant with the 225 slant 6 and a VJ with a 245 semi. 202s are OK if you give them a cam and some extractors! Looking at that picture of the VB with the caravan, if I remember correctly, you had to install a brace kit in the boot or the rear quarters would crease when you hitched up the van!
Hi Glynnie I think that the arrival of the 186 marked a large/huge? leap in power output over the previous grey? motors and gave Holden enthusiasts the ability to finally get some decent, reliable performance for a smaller $ outlay. That's why I think it is regarded in high esteem. Believe it or not, I have never driven a Mopar six. I have been told that they were (still are?) the best six cylinder engines ever produced by US / Australian manufacturers. The 186 & 202 XU-1 motors were a treat, but the standard production motor needed plenty of work to make it perform. I had a standard pre-pollution 202 in a 1972 HQ ute, it would run in tune for about a week. Went OK but was no excitement machine. The post pollution 3.3 L's were woeful. Everyone I knew with one disconnected the anti pollution gear in an effort to regain some?? of the lost performance. Again, I drove the early V6 efforts in the up to VT model (company cars) and wasn't all that impressed by the motor, but enjoyed the package. To put things in context, I was driving an XF & EL Falcon as the family rigs at the time.
gtgeoff & LX355 I agree and would like to ask, as no one seems to be able to tell me. Why was the 186 better, or at least remembered that way, than other size red six's? I know with the 5.0 litre by late 70's and 80's it was strangled and performance was no where near what it could have been. Did the 202/3.3 litre suffer the same conditions. It just always seemed odd that Holden would go to a worse performing engine. As for Holden 6's. I have had them all. the grey was sturdy and reliable and put into time context OK. I had various incarnations of the red six and really didn't like any of them. I drove an XU1 once and was amazed. The best 6 cyl Holden I have owned, albeit a Buick was the 88 onward 3.8 litre V6. Especially after Ecotech. Much prefer the Ford 4.1. It always just seemed stronger and smoother. But favourite six I have owned was the Chrysler Slant 225. Beautiful, torquey and reliable.
My Dad - a dyed-in-the-wool Ford Fan bought a new VB SLE 308 auto. I always thought that car was "hard". Small inside, not very powerful. I wasn't a Holden fan then, even though I'd had a great run with my FC.
instead, I went out and bought a Mazda 626. Similar dimensions internally to the VB, more comfortable for my 6'4" frame (more front leg room!), and a darn site more frugal! in 1984 I got caught up with Ford's enthusiastic sales campaign and traded the 626 on an XE 4.1 litre 4 speed S pack. I should have been wary when I was given $300 more as a trade-in for the 5-year old 626, than I paid for it! The XE lasted the least amount of time ever for a car of mine. 130,000 k's. Black smoke, rattles, random parts deciding it was their time to part company with the car, and each morning you never knew what colour fluid it was going to deposit on the garage floor! Once it dropped red fluid on the floor. Red? Brake fluid was straw coloured, coolant was green, engine oil was (usually) black. When I called the service department they said it was ATF. In a manual gearbox? Apparently that was to make shifts easier. Ok, but why did it leak? On the hoist I found the top gearbox plate bolts all loose... What were the service guys doing in there anyway? To it's credit, it had a very poor service department at the local Ford dealer.
I think your being a bit harsh there gtgeoff, what about the grey motor [nope that was a Chev design] I would put the 179 [in it's day] with the 186. What about the 202 [nah gutless and thirsty] The first V6 [nah noisy and used to spin cam bearings and was also US] Um, what about the turbo Nissan 6 [nah Nissan again] Dam, I got nothing!
I think that you are quite correct in pinpointing the engine options as a big let down for the new Commodore, it got me thinking. Apart from the XU-1 motor/s and the Nissan six (which GMH imported), has GMH ever produced a decent six cylinder engine since the 186? During the early / mid Commodore period I owned a succession of Falcon's, as I liked the performance/economy of the 4.1 L far better than any Holden six be it straight or V6.
I can remember my father getting excited about the new Commodore, until he saw it in the flesh. My dad was big on engineering excellence in cars. It was exactly the Holden he had been waiting for, with enough engineering changes/updates to satisfy his "local" requirements, to trade his beloved R16. Alas, you can imagine his disappointment when he dropped into the showroom to check the Commodore out, with its ill fitting doors, poor paint work and chronic 3 3L six. I think that depression set in straight after, as six months latter, we had a shiny new Starfire 4 Torana. "Tough as nails and should be more economical than that useless six" Famous last words!!!!!!! Another great walk down memory lane Dr John.
Thanks for this excellent drive down Memory Lane, freeway64. What a graphic shot,. beautifully reproduced. Glynnie, I felt very conned when I bought my own first Commodore, conned mainly by the over-enthusiastic and, frankly, gullible media. The Holden spin machine was brilliant back then. There was lots to like about the car but if it ain't built properly, one's enthusiasm is soon undermined, if not ruined.
Thanks for the great article Jo. I was 13 when these came out and as school boys that were into cars there was much discussion. By the time we could drive 5 years later these were an option. Overall the VB was seen by us as a dud. Mainly for the reason you state.......that 1964 6 cylinder. It just had nothing. It didn't seem to pull hard or rev hard and was thirsty. My mate had a 4spd wagon and you could at least get a bit extra out of it. I ended up with a 4.2VH and every time I got in it I wished I had the 5.0litre. Myself and a friend both had the same experience. The 4.2 seemed a bet each way that went wrong. Not powerful enough (choked by then) and no more economical than the bigger engine. Dash cracks and warping were standard for any car over 5 years that had been to the beach. I think there was some good thought and concepts there though. Good memories though all the same.
Another good one Dr John; Ford went to town promoting the advantages of the larger XD-XF for taxi work against the VB-VK as this brochure shows around 1985. (Not sure my scans appear on this site to their full size and proportion - let me know).
Thank you very much, LX355. Your knowledge seems pretty good and I appreciate the feedback. No the alloy head was a joint venture with Honda. (I was there.)
Another great story Dr Wright, your knowledge blows me away. I remember thinking at the time how flimsy the VB's front end looked compared to HZ series off the day , however as time would tell the strut front end was durable and well up to the job of handling Aussie conditions. Holden also did a good cost saving exercise with the Commodore rear axle and finale drive [diff] as they incorporated the old banjo diff components into a Salisbury design axle housing, it become known as the small Salisbury. The larger Ten Bolt Salisbury being reserved for the 5 Litre. I may have interpreted your information incorrectly regarding the steering rack mounting being on the firewall as the Commodores rack was bolted to the rear of the cross member, however the Camira did have a firewall mounted rack. I have often wondered how much of a slug the replacement would have been for the HZ series, having the larger Statesman's body with a 3.3 would have been embarrassingly slow. a nice big car it might have been but a 5L would have been needed for any get up and go I would think. The 2850 six was the standard six for the LJ series I thought rather than an option? In closing I thought that the Falcon cross-flow head [when made from alloy] was developed in conjunction with Yamaha. Regards Mal Irving
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Comments
DrJohnWright
The Commodore was a revelation. Sure the engines were disappointing, but the SL/E with the optional 5.0-litre V8 was just about the best sports sedan money could buy in 1978-79.
jgsheehan
As per your comment on the VB development being an important even in Holdens history I’d be interested in a book about the development and testing of the Commodore. I’ve read plenty of articles over the years and recall the stories of the Opel engineers not believing the readouts or that the roads were actually real roads etc. I think it would a good book like your “Special” book on the 48, and Don Lofflers books.
I guess owning a VH Vacationer may have something to do with it.
But as a 16yo in 1978 I remember the excitement of the launch of the Commodore. I used to subscribe to Wheels magazine and devoured the articles in them, all gone now. The VB Commodore issue arrived water damaged which was disappointing. But I dried it off and still read it cover to cover.
DazSS
very informative article.
Iots of new info I haven't read before about the background behind the first generation Commodores
DrJohnWright
What a great story, Jargonaut. I think we could publish a book full of these recollections. I, for one, would re-read it often.
Jargonaut
This is almost a repeat of my reflections on your Gemini piece, John, but my Dad bought a VB sports pack in 1979 as our family car. It had lovely mid-brown metallic paint (not Sandalwood) and the SL/E alloys. I couldn't believe our family had acquired such a cool "sports" sedan. Driving it with the V8, dual exhausts and 4 speed manual was a treat for me as an 18 year old. The steering and handling seemed magical to me at the time. Our car didn't suffer any quality control problems in the body or interior but the poor 4.2 litre V8 was strangled by emissions gear and I remember dad returning from a long trip one day with it sounding like a chaff cutter - I think the dealer managed to get it sounding OK again. Not long after that Dad set off for Cowra (we lived in Canberra) very early one morning on a business trip. He suffered from hay fever, was taking antihistamines and didn't have breakfast that day. Inevitably, he fell asleep at the wheel on a straight stretch of road and 'came to' just in time to find himself barreling off the wrong side of the road at about 120km/h. He reckons he hit everything (brakes, steering) but it was too late and he probably made it a lot worse! The car hit a dirt culvert and launched itself into an impressive, multiple end-over-end roll (according to a witness and the damage incurred). A local farmer heard the commotion and saw the dust. Dad was wearing his seat belt and his only injuries were a bad sternum strain and a strange isolated graze on the back of his head (hair missing too). He was hospitalised for 24 hours under observation. I never saw the VB again. Needless to say, it was written off. But I reckon its inherent strength and safety probably had a lot to do with Dad's survival. That, and wearing his seat belt...
DrJohnWright
I am with you, Mirrabucca. Of course the point about the sexiness of a Fairmont GXL versus a Commodore is right, too. Oddly, there was no overtly sporty variant of the VB because the Sport Pak didn't qualify. The Peugeot 504 was head and shoulders above both Falcon and Commodore at the time and history has served to extend its advantage. How about a 504 with a small block V8? You wouldn't even have to upgrade the brakes. This car (in 2.0-litre Ti guise) was Peugeot's postwar high point before a rapid descent into ordinariness. There was an ad campaign in the early 1990s 'Only a Peugeot a Peugeot is a Peugeot'. That would be laughable now.
freeway64
All very well to be discussing the VB in S/LE V8 form - for those who were allocated a fleet car; we were lucky to end up with not much more than a no-frills base model. Working as a rep in the oil industry, my first company car was an HZ Kingswood SL, which I loved - big, solid and handled reasonably well. By 1981 our choice was between the VC Commodore L 3.3 or XD Falcon GL 3.3. Without a family, the VC seemed to me to be the logical choice. One look at the big plain black plastic dash with a hole for a parcel tray, under dash hand-brake XD and column auto change, convinced me the more civilised VC was the way to go. It was the first of three Commodores - VH and VL followed and I was never disappointed. They all stood up pretty well to Queensland roads and heat, with a few long trips to Melbourne. After 100,000 kms the VC was replaced and yes, Dr John, one of the most irritating things were the ashtrays in the rear doors rolling around on the floor. GMH did take a big gamble with it - many Commodores and Falcons in the early '80s seemed to be fleet cars.
CHASTE
I agree 100% Motown about the comparison with the Fairmont GXL. I think that is completely confirmed with the photo you have there. Put them side by side now and the Fairmont GXL still wins by a country mile. Those headlights combined with the bonnet air intakes (were they functional) are beautiful. Those windscreen wipers on the headlights were an interesting option. I never saw a pair that were in the correct position after a few years and a few years after that most had been removed completely. I always wondered why Holden bothered with them.
Motown1
At the time I definitely preferred the Fords, thinking the Commodore too small. I did, however, like the SLE 308. Especially the little wipers on the headlights, luxury interior and V8 burble. That was a nice package but if someone said you can have that or a 5.8 Fairmont GXL (despite being a generation older car) I would take the Ford although both are desirable today. John I especially love that period photo of the brown Commodore towing the caravan - classic Australiana!
mirrabucca
Reminds me. even being an Aussie car fan, I still remember my Ford-Fan Dad, cant remember if it was before or after his VB 308 SLE, bought a Pug 504. Now THAT was the best car for Australia at the time! I remember taking it for a fang. It went very well! I hit a pothole at speed. Well, I thought I did! Saw it coming..., somewhere out there a wheel hit something. Didn't faze the car at all. Talk about a fantastic ride! And corner! These things were brilliant.
I'd love to be able to bring one back, see just how good they were, compared to today's best.
gtgeoff
Hi Dr John, the R16 was the second TL we had, my brother-in-law also ended up with a TS. Dad couldn't come to trading the R16 on the Commodore, but as I said, he must have been in a very depressed state to arrive home with the Starfire 4 Torana 6 - 12 months latter. I all fairness, we had moved from the Blue Mountains to rural NSW. Not many Renault dealers in the bush in those days. Dad had to show/teach the local wheel alignment place how to align the front wheels on the R16 when we went to the bush. Ah, those were the days!!!!
LX355
Ah yes the 250 2V was a great performer. A XY Fairmont 250 2V with top loader [with new linkages of course] and a 2.75:1 rear axle was a fantastic car. I think Ford shot themselves in the foot with their head and intake manifolds cast as one in the pre cross-flow days. The exception was of course the 2V, it was actually a better engine than the 302 in a lot of ways as it was lighter, better on fuel and come very close with power and torque outputs. I'm guessing that's why Ford dropped the 2V as it was an embarrassment to the 302. In retrospect if Ford had cast their heads separate to the inlet manifolds a hole generation of multiple carburetor'd Ford sixes would have emerged and blown the old Red Holden's into the weeds I'm guessing.
DrJohnWright
Well, gtgeoff, your father traded his R16 on a VB! Was it a TS? If so I can absolutely understand his frustration. Five years elapsed between my purchase of my white 1970 16TS (in 1973) and my Sandalwood VB, half a decade in which performance and quality both declined, especially in the case of locally manufactured (and even locally assembled) cars. My 1975 Passat TS was very poorly put together. As for the comments on Holden straight sixes, there is no doubt the 202 was harsher than the smaller versions and even more breathless. It has always seemed to me as if a kind of wowser mentality prevailed at GM-H, along the lines of 'let's not give the punter too much of a good driving experience.' The brilliance of the LJ XU-1 does, however, reveal the inherent potential of the basically well-engineered in-line Holden six (seen in it best context of time, perhaps, in the EH 179M in Januarly 1964). The XA's 250 six was far better than the HQ's 202 and the 2V (2 venturi) edition offered more squirt than the 253 V8. As I say, the 253 was really the engine entry level for driving enthusiasts. Remember, too, how much heavier a Falcon was than a Commodore. I'm thinking that the XA 250 2V I tested would have had better acceleration and used far less fuel than my 4.2 Commodore, both cars having four-speed manual transmissions.
CHASTE
Yep. My dad bought a XE Falcon S pack over a VH Commodore after driving both a couple of times. He had many quirks my dad, and one was always wanting a tow bar on a car despite NEVER towing anything. He believed that it added strength to the rear end. In this case it did need a brace. He loved that idea. He did though but an XE without power steering which was beyond my mum to drive. It was otherwise a great car. A much better car than my VH.
mirrabucca
Cme2c's comment about the towbar brace reminded me of yet another "feature" of the XE Falcon I owned: It also had to have a brace fitted. Because Ford went to a coil spring rear suspension (only a few years after GM...) they decided there was no longer a need for a strong chassis section aft of the rear axle. Hence no strength for towbars either.
I wonder how they would have fared in a rear-ender?
JB007
Thanks for the story John. The VB ticked many boxes for me at the time except for the lazy fuel burning engines and four speed manual gear boxes that did not have a good name. I did read that the roll over steer was caused by the placement of the steering rack with the Holden engines and not correct until the VL Nissan engine that allowed the rack to be relocated to it correct position. I think the geometry problem was that as the car rolled, the other tie rod resulted in excessive outer wheel toe in. I looked at buying a new run out VL but the Holden dealer was not interested.
cme2c
Hi, Glynnie. I agree with you about the Chrysler 6s, had a VE valiant with the 225 slant 6 and a VJ with a 245 semi. 202s are OK if you give them a cam and some extractors! Looking at that picture of the VB with the caravan, if I remember correctly, you had to install a brace kit in the boot or the rear quarters would crease when you hitched up the van!
gtgeoff
Hi Glynnie
I think that the arrival of the 186 marked a large/huge? leap in power output over the previous grey? motors and gave Holden enthusiasts the ability to finally get some decent, reliable performance for a smaller $ outlay. That's why I think it is regarded in high esteem. Believe it or not, I have never driven a Mopar six. I have been told that they were (still are?) the best six cylinder engines ever produced by US / Australian manufacturers. The 186 & 202 XU-1 motors were a treat, but the standard production motor needed plenty of work to make it perform. I had a standard pre-pollution 202 in a 1972 HQ ute, it would run in tune for about a week. Went OK but was no excitement machine. The post pollution 3.3 L's were woeful. Everyone I knew with one disconnected the anti pollution gear in an effort to regain some?? of the lost performance. Again, I drove the early V6 efforts in the up to VT model (company cars) and wasn't all that impressed by the motor, but enjoyed the package. To put things in context, I was driving an XF & EL Falcon as the family rigs at the time.
CHASTE
gtgeoff & LX355 I agree and would like to ask, as no one seems to be able to tell me. Why was the 186 better, or at least remembered that way, than other size red six's? I know with the 5.0 litre by late 70's and 80's it was strangled and performance was no where near what it could have been. Did the 202/3.3 litre suffer the same conditions. It just always seemed odd that Holden would go to a worse performing engine. As for Holden 6's. I have had them all. the grey was sturdy and reliable and put into time context OK. I had various incarnations of the red six and really didn't like any of them. I drove an XU1 once and was amazed. The best 6 cyl Holden I have owned, albeit a Buick was the 88 onward 3.8 litre V6. Especially after Ecotech. Much prefer the Ford 4.1. It always just seemed stronger and smoother. But favourite six I have owned was the Chrysler Slant 225. Beautiful, torquey and reliable.
mirrabucca
My Dad - a dyed-in-the-wool Ford Fan bought a new VB SLE 308 auto. I always thought that car was "hard". Small inside, not very powerful. I wasn't a Holden fan then, even though I'd had a great run with my FC.
instead, I went out and bought a Mazda 626. Similar dimensions internally to the VB, more comfortable for my 6'4" frame (more front leg room!), and a darn site more frugal!
in 1984 I got caught up with Ford's enthusiastic sales campaign and traded the 626 on an XE 4.1 litre 4 speed S pack. I should have been wary when I was given $300 more as a trade-in for the 5-year old 626, than I paid for it!
The XE lasted the least amount of time ever for a car of mine. 130,000 k's. Black smoke, rattles, random parts deciding it was their time to part company with the car, and each morning you never knew what colour fluid it was going to deposit on the garage floor! Once it dropped red fluid on the floor. Red? Brake fluid was straw coloured, coolant was green, engine oil was (usually) black. When I called the service department they said it was ATF. In a manual gearbox? Apparently that was to make shifts easier. Ok, but why did it leak? On the hoist I found the top gearbox plate bolts all loose... What were the service guys doing in there anyway?
To it's credit, it had a very poor service department at the local Ford dealer.
LX355
I think your being a bit harsh there gtgeoff, what about the grey motor [nope that was a Chev design] I would put the 179 [in it's day] with the 186. What about the 202 [nah gutless and thirsty] The first V6 [nah noisy and used to spin cam bearings and was also US] Um, what about the turbo Nissan 6 [nah Nissan again] Dam, I got nothing!
gtgeoff
I think that you are quite correct in pinpointing the engine options as a big let down for the new Commodore, it got me thinking. Apart from the XU-1 motor/s and the Nissan six (which GMH imported), has GMH ever produced a decent six cylinder engine since the 186? During the early / mid Commodore period I owned a succession of Falcon's, as I liked the performance/economy of the 4.1 L far better than any Holden six be it straight or V6.
gtgeoff
I can remember my father getting excited about the new Commodore, until he saw it in the flesh. My dad was big on engineering excellence in cars. It was exactly the Holden he had been waiting for, with enough engineering changes/updates to satisfy his "local" requirements, to trade his beloved R16. Alas, you can imagine his disappointment when he dropped into the showroom to check the Commodore out, with its ill fitting doors, poor paint work and chronic 3 3L six. I think that depression set in straight after, as six months latter, we had a shiny new Starfire 4 Torana. "Tough as nails and should be more economical than that useless six" Famous last words!!!!!!! Another great walk down memory lane Dr John.
DrJohnWright
Thanks for this excellent drive down Memory Lane, freeway64. What a graphic shot,. beautifully reproduced. Glynnie, I felt very conned when I bought my own first Commodore, conned mainly by the over-enthusiastic and, frankly, gullible media. The Holden spin machine was brilliant back then. There was lots to like about the car but if it ain't built properly, one's enthusiasm is soon undermined, if not ruined.
CHASTE
Thanks for the great article Jo. I was 13 when these came out and as school boys that were into cars there was much discussion. By the time we could drive 5 years later these were an option. Overall the VB was seen by us as a dud. Mainly for the reason you state.......that 1964 6 cylinder. It just had nothing. It didn't seem to pull hard or rev hard and was thirsty. My mate had a 4spd wagon and you could at least get a bit extra out of it. I ended up with a 4.2VH and every time I got in it I wished I had the 5.0litre. Myself and a friend both had the same experience. The 4.2 seemed a bet each way that went wrong. Not powerful enough (choked by then) and no more economical than the bigger engine. Dash cracks and warping were standard for any car over 5 years that had been to the beach. I think there was some good thought and concepts there though. Good memories though all the same.
freeway64
Another good one Dr John; Ford went to town promoting the advantages of the larger XD-XF for taxi work against the VB-VK as this brochure shows around 1985. (Not sure my scans appear on this site to their full size and proportion - let me know).
LX355
Thanks Dr Wright, I always thought it was Yamaha [must have been great being involved] trouble is the older I get the more I think I remember
DrJohnWright
Thank you very much, LX355. Your knowledge seems pretty good and I appreciate the feedback. No the alloy head was a joint venture with Honda. (I was there.)
LX355
Another great story Dr Wright, your knowledge blows me away. I remember thinking at the time how flimsy the VB's front end looked compared to HZ series off the day , however as time would tell the strut front end was durable and well up to the job of handling Aussie conditions. Holden also did a good cost saving exercise with the Commodore rear axle and finale drive [diff] as they incorporated the old banjo diff components into a Salisbury design axle housing, it become known as the small Salisbury. The larger Ten Bolt Salisbury being reserved for the 5 Litre.
I may have interpreted your information incorrectly regarding the steering rack mounting being on the firewall as the Commodores rack was bolted to the rear of the cross member, however the Camira did have a firewall mounted rack.
I have often wondered how much of a slug the replacement would have been for the HZ series, having the larger Statesman's body with a 3.3 would have been embarrassingly slow. a nice big car it might have been but a 5L would have been needed for any get up and go I would think. The 2850 six was the standard six for the LJ series I thought rather than an option?
In closing I thought that the Falcon cross-flow head [when made from alloy] was developed in conjunction with Yamaha.
Regards Mal Irving